Multimedia
Aug 21, 05:43 AM
I stopped by the Apple store tonight to play with a Macpro. I'm getting ready to buy and thought I'd get some hands on experience to see how it performed with Finalcut Pro. I was especially interested in how it handles playback of uncompressed footage.
The store had a 2.6 hooked up to a 30"ACD. Everything on the machine was stock. I launched FCP and it appeared with a project already loaded (about 5 seconds). The project was a simple 20-30 second 720x480 NTSC clip of hockey game footage. I selected the clip and copied it to a new layer and threw a blend mode on it AND changed the speed to 85%. Next I copied and made another layer and changed the speed and offset it and changed the transparency to 80%. 3 layers total with the top two manipulated. I hit the render and it finished in about 30 seconds. :)
I know, not very scientific, but I just wanted to get a feel for how fast the Macpro would render manipulated footage. Anyhow, next I changed the output in project settings to "uncompressed" and hit render again. Again, it took less than a minute to render and the CPU usage in console was maxing out at only 42% per core.
Once the render completed, I hit the play button to see how the stock Macpro would handle playback of the uncompressed footage. It played for about 4 seconds then threw an error saying that frames were being dropped during playback. Not good. I was hoping that the Macpro would be able to play uncompressed footage from the timeline without 3rd party acceleration or setting up a raid. The error message suggested turning off RT effects (of which I did, but still had dropped frames) or get a faster drive. There was a couple other things the error suggested, but I can't remember at the moment. I wonder if having the ATI card would have made a difference? Not sure if FCP uses the GPU for playback, but I would think that should make a difference. Ram would probably help too. Anyone know what might be going on? Am I expecting too much out of this machine?
Sorry for sort of getting off topic. I thought this might be an appropriate area to post this; I wasn't feeling up to starting a new thread.That's great info. Would you please tell us:
1. How fast that is compared to what Mac model-speed you are currently using?
2. IE Were you impressed or not so impressed with how fast-slow it rendered?
3. What kind of speed were you expecting?
I'm no expert, but my guess is that the lack of RAM may have been the culprit. Need more independent tests like this from other FCP users. Thanks a lot. :)
The store had a 2.6 hooked up to a 30"ACD. Everything on the machine was stock. I launched FCP and it appeared with a project already loaded (about 5 seconds). The project was a simple 20-30 second 720x480 NTSC clip of hockey game footage. I selected the clip and copied it to a new layer and threw a blend mode on it AND changed the speed to 85%. Next I copied and made another layer and changed the speed and offset it and changed the transparency to 80%. 3 layers total with the top two manipulated. I hit the render and it finished in about 30 seconds. :)
I know, not very scientific, but I just wanted to get a feel for how fast the Macpro would render manipulated footage. Anyhow, next I changed the output in project settings to "uncompressed" and hit render again. Again, it took less than a minute to render and the CPU usage in console was maxing out at only 42% per core.
Once the render completed, I hit the play button to see how the stock Macpro would handle playback of the uncompressed footage. It played for about 4 seconds then threw an error saying that frames were being dropped during playback. Not good. I was hoping that the Macpro would be able to play uncompressed footage from the timeline without 3rd party acceleration or setting up a raid. The error message suggested turning off RT effects (of which I did, but still had dropped frames) or get a faster drive. There was a couple other things the error suggested, but I can't remember at the moment. I wonder if having the ATI card would have made a difference? Not sure if FCP uses the GPU for playback, but I would think that should make a difference. Ram would probably help too. Anyone know what might be going on? Am I expecting too much out of this machine?
Sorry for sort of getting off topic. I thought this might be an appropriate area to post this; I wasn't feeling up to starting a new thread.That's great info. Would you please tell us:
1. How fast that is compared to what Mac model-speed you are currently using?
2. IE Were you impressed or not so impressed with how fast-slow it rendered?
3. What kind of speed were you expecting?
I'm no expert, but my guess is that the lack of RAM may have been the culprit. Need more independent tests like this from other FCP users. Thanks a lot. :)
soldierblue
Apr 20, 03:15 PM
The suits aren't very similar at all.
They're similar enough that an average person should be able to make a connection. Apple is filing a lawsuit against Samsung that doesn't have much chance of sticking, but that's not even the point, they want to scare Samsung into a settlement in all likelihood.
Think deeper. They're more similar than you think they are.
They're similar enough that an average person should be able to make a connection. Apple is filing a lawsuit against Samsung that doesn't have much chance of sticking, but that's not even the point, they want to scare Samsung into a settlement in all likelihood.
Think deeper. They're more similar than you think they are.
Benjy91
Mar 31, 02:52 PM
Please, enlighten us, how does fragmentation bite Android's ass when it is the #1 smartphone OS. Regardless what you think, Android and iOS are by far the most successful OS in the last 5 years.
How is it biting them in the ass? Android is the fastest growing OS with a larger share than IOS. I think it's been a very succesfull strategy.
I never said it's already got them, I said it would get them eventually, and now Google has seen this, and is now tightening control.
And how it will 'bite them in the ass' is with the user experience, users seeing apps on the Android Marketplace, but the app doesnt support their phone, or requires features their phone doesnt support, or their phone doesnt quite have the power to run it. Could crash their phone etc.
Their strategy ensured short-term gain, but problems later on.
Apple wont run into problems with iOS Fragmentation for a long time yet. And they can easily avoid these issues by officially not supporting older devices and preventing them accessing apps they cant run.
How is it biting them in the ass? Android is the fastest growing OS with a larger share than IOS. I think it's been a very succesfull strategy.
I never said it's already got them, I said it would get them eventually, and now Google has seen this, and is now tightening control.
And how it will 'bite them in the ass' is with the user experience, users seeing apps on the Android Marketplace, but the app doesnt support their phone, or requires features their phone doesnt support, or their phone doesnt quite have the power to run it. Could crash their phone etc.
Their strategy ensured short-term gain, but problems later on.
Apple wont run into problems with iOS Fragmentation for a long time yet. And they can easily avoid these issues by officially not supporting older devices and preventing them accessing apps they cant run.
netdog
Aug 11, 10:52 AM
I wonder if it's going to be a toy or a real phone. I'm hoping it's more of a smartphone than a ngage phone. (i know they couldn't make a phone that bad if they tried, just tryint to get a point out there.)
It seems to me that there may be two phones coming here. I wouldn't be surprised if one has a full keyboard, either on touchscreen or using conventional buttons, and one is simpler.
It seems to me that there may be two phones coming here. I wouldn't be surprised if one has a full keyboard, either on touchscreen or using conventional buttons, and one is simpler.
maclaptop
Apr 13, 03:26 PM
1) I'm perfectly happy with the data speeds I get on AT&T 3G. I would guess the new 4G phones will suffer in battery life. I don't want to give up battery life for network speed I don't really need. If I had to choose I would choose battery life every time.
2) It's not the cost of the phone, its the cost of the data plan. I would guess it will be like the iPhone 3G launch where AT&T forced you into a 3G plan even if you didn't have 3G coverage in your area.
3) I currently have unlimited data with AT&T which I would like to keep. I doubt very seriously this will be an option with the new "4G" network plans.
4) I can wait for a "4G" phone until there is decent "4G" coverage.
1) Me too
2) I Agree
3) I'm sure you're right
4) Me too
Great post :)
2) It's not the cost of the phone, its the cost of the data plan. I would guess it will be like the iPhone 3G launch where AT&T forced you into a 3G plan even if you didn't have 3G coverage in your area.
3) I currently have unlimited data with AT&T which I would like to keep. I doubt very seriously this will be an option with the new "4G" network plans.
4) I can wait for a "4G" phone until there is decent "4G" coverage.
1) Me too
2) I Agree
3) I'm sure you're right
4) Me too
Great post :)
Legion93
Apr 6, 03:34 PM
Perfect day for this news....
I have a new 13" MBA sitting here at my desk unopened...just dropped off from FedEx today. I'm debating whether or not to just return it and wait for the refresh or be happy with what I got.
I'm a very light user..web, email, iTunes, sync iPhone and iPad. Do I really need the Sandy Bridge power..probably not but I dont want to have the "old not so shiny ball" come June (as the rumors suggest).
Any help from the MR community is greatly appreciated!
Don't get your hopes up, as any rumour is just a speculation. Apple may or may not release any updated version of the MBA very soon, but it can all depend. If you really want power, you could sell your Air for a MBP, which came out only couple months ago.
I have a new 13" MBA sitting here at my desk unopened...just dropped off from FedEx today. I'm debating whether or not to just return it and wait for the refresh or be happy with what I got.
I'm a very light user..web, email, iTunes, sync iPhone and iPad. Do I really need the Sandy Bridge power..probably not but I dont want to have the "old not so shiny ball" come June (as the rumors suggest).
Any help from the MR community is greatly appreciated!
Don't get your hopes up, as any rumour is just a speculation. Apple may or may not release any updated version of the MBA very soon, but it can all depend. If you really want power, you could sell your Air for a MBP, which came out only couple months ago.
bretm
Jul 20, 10:45 AM
My first job as a graphic designer I used an enhanced SE/30 (with 20" external monitor). About a year later we upgraded to the Quadras, so I guess that makes me #5?
I think I used a SE 25 with a 12" monitor.
I also remember the first mac I purchased was the cheapest PowerMac they had. I remember upgrading the RAM from 8mb to 16mb and it cost over $300 for that 8mb chip!
I think I used a SE 25 with a 12" monitor.
I also remember the first mac I purchased was the cheapest PowerMac they had. I remember upgrading the RAM from 8mb to 16mb and it cost over $300 for that 8mb chip!
rdowns
Apr 28, 05:06 PM
Surely the comb-over is enough?
One would think.
http://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/35182-donald_trump_comb_over.jpg
One would think.
http://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/35182-donald_trump_comb_over.jpg
CaoCao
Mar 1, 05:00 PM
^^ Well maybe, but the Obama administration doesn't believe that law is constitutional.
Gov't seeks to uphold DOMA in gay lawyer's lawsuit
SAN FRANCISCO
The Justice Department says a lesbian federal employee should still be denied permission to add her wife to her health insurance despite the Obama administration's refusal to defend a federal law banning recognition of same-sex marriages.
Government lawyers told a federal judge Monday in San Francisco that the administration will still enforce the Defense of Marriage Act until it is struck down by a court or repealed by Congress. They say its new position on the act's unconstitutionality is irrelevant.
Karen Golinski is a 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals lawyer suing the Office of Personnel Management for not authorizing family health coverage for her wife. The circuit's chief judge has twice ordered the office to allow it.
The Justice Department says the rulings were not binding because they were made in the judge's role as Golinski's boss.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9LMIFS80.htm
I can't help it if you live in a backward country. I was talking about civilised norms. And whatever your cockeyed definition, it is still not equality.
Right, that's why England is preventing a married couple from adopting.
Gov't seeks to uphold DOMA in gay lawyer's lawsuit
SAN FRANCISCO
The Justice Department says a lesbian federal employee should still be denied permission to add her wife to her health insurance despite the Obama administration's refusal to defend a federal law banning recognition of same-sex marriages.
Government lawyers told a federal judge Monday in San Francisco that the administration will still enforce the Defense of Marriage Act until it is struck down by a court or repealed by Congress. They say its new position on the act's unconstitutionality is irrelevant.
Karen Golinski is a 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals lawyer suing the Office of Personnel Management for not authorizing family health coverage for her wife. The circuit's chief judge has twice ordered the office to allow it.
The Justice Department says the rulings were not binding because they were made in the judge's role as Golinski's boss.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9LMIFS80.htm
I can't help it if you live in a backward country. I was talking about civilised norms. And whatever your cockeyed definition, it is still not equality.
Right, that's why England is preventing a married couple from adopting.
Platform
Sep 13, 07:25 AM
WOW...I have one core....now 8 cores...:eek:
maclaptop
Apr 19, 03:01 PM
Sigh. The iPhone is still gaining market share. Not losing market share.
Yes they are.
Apple's doing a great job with one exception.
It's the fact that they just can't be happy and celebrate all they've accomplished.
They have to desperately dive into the slimy gutter and fire off law suits.
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Yes they are.
Apple's doing a great job with one exception.
It's the fact that they just can't be happy and celebrate all they've accomplished.
They have to desperately dive into the slimy gutter and fire off law suits.
GooMan
Apr 12, 12:42 PM
I really don't know what to do now.
I have a 3GS, decided to skip the iPhone 4 (was eligible for upgrade), and my contract is up in June or July. I don't want to buy an iPhone 4 knowing an iPhone 5 is around the corner. However, if the iPhone 5 has LTE I do not want it and I guess I'll have no choice but to buy an iPhone 4 then. If I am forced to buy the iPhone 4 I might as well buy an iPhone 4 today instead of waiting until the fall.
I have a 3GS, decided to skip the iPhone 4 (was eligible for upgrade), and my contract is up in June or July. I don't want to buy an iPhone 4 knowing an iPhone 5 is around the corner. However, if the iPhone 5 has LTE I do not want it and I guess I'll have no choice but to buy an iPhone 4 then. If I am forced to buy the iPhone 4 I might as well buy an iPhone 4 today instead of waiting until the fall.
BoRegardless
Mar 26, 10:42 AM
OS evolution is like classifying cats by size.
Each one gets a bit bigger, but they are still cats.
The only time I would be excited, literally, about a MAJOR release is if they went to an OS which was slated to be described by Canines.
Then I would be reasonably assured something astounding was coming.
Each one gets a bit bigger, but they are still cats.
The only time I would be excited, literally, about a MAJOR release is if they went to an OS which was slated to be described by Canines.
Then I would be reasonably assured something astounding was coming.
lsvtecjohn3
Apr 19, 03:50 PM
Well Rovio (Angry Birds) thinks otherwise:
http://www.insidemobileapps.com/2011/03/13/angry-birds-android-ios/
"The company said in December that it expected to make $1 million per month from Android by the end of 2010. (...) Now that the app has seen about 100 million installs across all platforms, Rovio is not getting the same initial bump in paid download revenue from Apple’s app store. On Android, the company doesn’t offer paid Angry Birds apps, but sees recurring revenue from advertising."
So they make more money with their free Android version than they do with the paid iOS version.
Apple Has Paid $2 Billion To App Developers (And Other Key Stats)
[http://www.techspot.com/news/42006-apple-has-paid-over-2-billion-to-app-developers.html
How much has Google paid?
And how many other developers feel that way as Rovio ... a few. If marker share was the end all then why is all the new top apps coming out for iOS first then Android later? Android going to have a large market share iOS will probability have around 20- 25% market share and if people continue to keep paying for apps I don't see anything changing this.
Why I prefer iOS Development over Android, from a Java guy
http://www.jeviathon.com/2011/01/why-i-prefer-ios-development-over.html
Android is a mess, say developers
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/04/04/android-is-a-mess-say-developers/
IOS Easier For Developers Compared To Android
http://www.mobile88.com/news/read.asp?file=/2011/4/5/20110405035733&phone=iOS-easier-to-develop-Android-Symbian
http://www.insidemobileapps.com/2011/03/13/angry-birds-android-ios/
"The company said in December that it expected to make $1 million per month from Android by the end of 2010. (...) Now that the app has seen about 100 million installs across all platforms, Rovio is not getting the same initial bump in paid download revenue from Apple’s app store. On Android, the company doesn’t offer paid Angry Birds apps, but sees recurring revenue from advertising."
So they make more money with their free Android version than they do with the paid iOS version.
Apple Has Paid $2 Billion To App Developers (And Other Key Stats)
[http://www.techspot.com/news/42006-apple-has-paid-over-2-billion-to-app-developers.html
How much has Google paid?
And how many other developers feel that way as Rovio ... a few. If marker share was the end all then why is all the new top apps coming out for iOS first then Android later? Android going to have a large market share iOS will probability have around 20- 25% market share and if people continue to keep paying for apps I don't see anything changing this.
Why I prefer iOS Development over Android, from a Java guy
http://www.jeviathon.com/2011/01/why-i-prefer-ios-development-over.html
Android is a mess, say developers
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/04/04/android-is-a-mess-say-developers/
IOS Easier For Developers Compared To Android
http://www.mobile88.com/news/read.asp?file=/2011/4/5/20110405035733&phone=iOS-easier-to-develop-Android-Symbian
starflyer
Mar 22, 03:07 PM
The iPad 2 is nice, but it needs more RAM. Multitasking is just terrible with few RAM and bad OS processes handling.
Says the man who doesn't even own one.
Next months will be crucial for me to decide the successor of my iPad 1.
Says the man who doesn't even own one.
Next months will be crucial for me to decide the successor of my iPad 1.
fivepoint
Apr 27, 02:27 PM
I am fairly confident that rather than pointing to a conspiracy, this simply shows that when scanned, the operator had enabled some sort of "auto-text" option that attempted to read and convert then embed the raw text info in the PDF, as to make the text "selectable" in preview programs.
It only worked on certain text, as is par for the course.
Hopefully you're not insinuating that I am pointing to a conspiracy, I'm pretty sure I was quite clear on that account.
As for the 'auto-text' thing... interesting, why though would the several dates, etc. be on separate layers? And why would the signatures be separate from the typed text? Just slightly different colorations? My only thought was that the thing was retouched in order to improve the appearance of a poor quality scan... but why would they be so sloppy in reassembling? Why not make it a single layer image before releasing? I don't buy that it was simply overlooked... It's the White House for crying out loud. It's as if they WANT they want the controversy to continue???
It only worked on certain text, as is par for the course.
Hopefully you're not insinuating that I am pointing to a conspiracy, I'm pretty sure I was quite clear on that account.
As for the 'auto-text' thing... interesting, why though would the several dates, etc. be on separate layers? And why would the signatures be separate from the typed text? Just slightly different colorations? My only thought was that the thing was retouched in order to improve the appearance of a poor quality scan... but why would they be so sloppy in reassembling? Why not make it a single layer image before releasing? I don't buy that it was simply overlooked... It's the White House for crying out loud. It's as if they WANT they want the controversy to continue???
63dot
Aug 18, 09:04 AM
Untill the cooling-solution starts to leak fluids, that is ;)?
i will also chime in on this one and say it's not likely to happen
many years before the G5 was liquid cooled, amd tried liquid cooling with some of their mobile processors and found the idea was not practical for reasons not disclosed and, at that time, dropped the project
later on, amd, like others, simply resorted to better designed, cooler chips and that solved overheating
i will also chime in on this one and say it's not likely to happen
many years before the G5 was liquid cooled, amd tried liquid cooling with some of their mobile processors and found the idea was not practical for reasons not disclosed and, at that time, dropped the project
later on, amd, like others, simply resorted to better designed, cooler chips and that solved overheating
iScott428
Mar 22, 01:37 PM
I would hardly consider any of these devices competition. The ecosystems that support these devices do not even come close to Apple's. Prices and specs are just trying to match the Ipad 2 but just like with any PC trying to match a Mac in performance or tech specs; you will not see the same or even close to the performance of the machine due to the software. Plus the Playbook has missed the train for businesses; show me a Corporate Executive with out an Ipad and I will show you an Executive on the way to retirement, bet they are the same person. :apple:
MACRUS
Apr 7, 12:32 AM
Not again..
NAB is for broadcast professionals - its doubtful there will be computer releases here.
where did you get such a non existing info? Apple has not attend the NAB for years now.
I'm not trolling, this is an honest question. But isn't a Final Cut pretty much worthless for commercial use without a way to put the results on Blu-Ray?
not everyone will agree with you but I do. not that all the work I do needs to be on blu-ray but some does and because DVDSP has not seen a real update since 2005 I think. I just had to ditch it. along with the outdated apps. I got Adobe's Creative Suite.
NAB is for broadcast professionals - its doubtful there will be computer releases here.
where did you get such a non existing info? Apple has not attend the NAB for years now.
I'm not trolling, this is an honest question. But isn't a Final Cut pretty much worthless for commercial use without a way to put the results on Blu-Ray?
not everyone will agree with you but I do. not that all the work I do needs to be on blu-ray but some does and because DVDSP has not seen a real update since 2005 I think. I just had to ditch it. along with the outdated apps. I got Adobe's Creative Suite.
citizenzen
Mar 18, 09:06 PM
I am very unhappy that Obama did not get us out of a state of War. Which pacifist do you plan on voting for this next time around?
What pacifist ever has a realistic chance of becoming the next "commander-in-chief"?
That's why 5P's contention is so ridiculous.
Candidates must paint themselves as "strong" and capable of leading our military, otherwise there'd be little chance they'd be elected as president.
What pacifist ever has a realistic chance of becoming the next "commander-in-chief"?
That's why 5P's contention is so ridiculous.
Candidates must paint themselves as "strong" and capable of leading our military, otherwise there'd be little chance they'd be elected as president.
madhatter61
Mar 23, 10:36 AM
Widescreen is great for movie watching, and the spec-lover in me is all over that... but it�s not very flexible for portrait use. (Which is how you hold a tablet one-handed, and is how you see the most content on a web page or scrolling document.)
A 10.1� 1280x800 screen is actually almost exactly the same screen area as an iPad: the iPad is 45.2 sq. in., and the 10.1 is 45.8 sq. in.
Held in portrait mode, the 10.1 is .75� taller... but .5� narrower than an iPad. I don�t think I�d care for that. (But with 1280x800 you do gain 32 pixels of width, and 256 pixels of height. Still not great for portrait use.)
The 8.9 display, though�which seems to save a few bucks�is an interesting option for dropping the price floor on �real� tablets. (Not that I�d settle for Android�s failings. As pointed out: specs alone don�t make a good car, nor a good computer, nor a good tablet!)
Ha ha :D Good thinking!
Actually if you look at Xoom and Samsung 10.1 are both 16:10 ratio ... perfect for movies ... the iPAD is 4x3 old TV ratio ... creates the need for filler top/side bars... I think that is called letterboxing ... CRS?
The key advantage for iPAD is in Landscape there is more vertical space for the virtual keyboard ... duh?
Also key here is PPI and is the heart of the display issue. Apple wants the same density of PPI so software development has a common display requirement. Then all apps work across the board. That is why Apple has hundreds of thousands of apps that work.
A 10.1� 1280x800 screen is actually almost exactly the same screen area as an iPad: the iPad is 45.2 sq. in., and the 10.1 is 45.8 sq. in.
Held in portrait mode, the 10.1 is .75� taller... but .5� narrower than an iPad. I don�t think I�d care for that. (But with 1280x800 you do gain 32 pixels of width, and 256 pixels of height. Still not great for portrait use.)
The 8.9 display, though�which seems to save a few bucks�is an interesting option for dropping the price floor on �real� tablets. (Not that I�d settle for Android�s failings. As pointed out: specs alone don�t make a good car, nor a good computer, nor a good tablet!)
Ha ha :D Good thinking!
Actually if you look at Xoom and Samsung 10.1 are both 16:10 ratio ... perfect for movies ... the iPAD is 4x3 old TV ratio ... creates the need for filler top/side bars... I think that is called letterboxing ... CRS?
The key advantage for iPAD is in Landscape there is more vertical space for the virtual keyboard ... duh?
Also key here is PPI and is the heart of the display issue. Apple wants the same density of PPI so software development has a common display requirement. Then all apps work across the board. That is why Apple has hundreds of thousands of apps that work.
Multimedia
Jul 27, 11:38 PM
So if the new iMacs are using 64-bit merom or conroe chips, what is the likelihood of them offering 4Mb of RAM?
And if they did, is the RAM likely to cost any more than it does for the current iMacs, due to the no of slots?I think you mean 4GB of RAM. The likelyhood of Apple offering it is ZERO. If they did, it would be offered for two to three times what you could buy it from a third party.
2GB sticks are still too expensive. See the G5 Quad prices for 2GB sticks:
Non ECC is $4700 for 8 sticks $587.50 each or $1175 per pair
ECC is $10,300 for 8 sticks or $1287.50 each or $2575 per pair
These prices are not in the class that an iMac buyer would want to consider paying.
And if they did, is the RAM likely to cost any more than it does for the current iMacs, due to the no of slots?I think you mean 4GB of RAM. The likelyhood of Apple offering it is ZERO. If they did, it would be offered for two to three times what you could buy it from a third party.
2GB sticks are still too expensive. See the G5 Quad prices for 2GB sticks:
Non ECC is $4700 for 8 sticks $587.50 each or $1175 per pair
ECC is $10,300 for 8 sticks or $1287.50 each or $2575 per pair
These prices are not in the class that an iMac buyer would want to consider paying.
bdkennedy1
Apr 11, 12:18 PM
Good. I'm tired of this yearly battle of upgrades.
applefan289
Apr 8, 08:12 AM
It's about time. Best Buy does not deserve the time of day - their employees are low, their service stinks, and their whole philosophy is unethical. Looks like it's starting to come back to haunt them now...
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